WorldShift 2012

This must be the Most Awesome one person undertaking and executing that I ever saw. Sent it to many and not a peep back...I guess the Shock still didn't wear off....would love to hear from Ervin, Joe, Carl, David and all
The Project

The activist arm of the project

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Very futuristic. Little bit of everything. Could make a good sequel for 'Minority Report' or other Sci Fi epics. I can see some of his ideas turn to reality much sooner than we expect. Curious to see where he will be taking this.
Hiya... behind every great man there is a great woman goes the phrase... and I think that Jaques Frescoe has an amazing support with him, that also keeps him on track.

Might be an idea for worldshift and zeitgeist to team up at least on the news front. peter Joseph the founder is coming to the UK late July so will keep everybody up to date with this.

All the best

WoW that you knew of this???:......No I didnt and yes it would be a great way to demonstrate the possibilities of the power of the human will.
Your right Iv been following these projects for about a month now and am impressed to say the least. I think its time for me to become more active my life is just very up in the air right now.
The futuristic designs are truly awesome. However, will they happen? How will the resistance of vested interests be overcome?
We have seen so many promising developments defeated by the power of existing systems whose instinct is to kill of competition whenever possible.
Excursion into soco-economic re-engineering via a moneyless and exchange-less economy leads the movement into a minefield of simplistic ideas into what a good society should be.

So let us not be blinded by rose tinted glasses.
A lot of those "specifics" are discussed in Peoples' Capitalism by James Albus.
For newer models to become reality, the current system must collapse, and surely it will. Our system is not designed to work in such a capacity to which it has reached. The details of its unsustainability are everywhere.
Reply to David Wilson Siegert on October 27

For newer models to become reality, the current system must collapse, and surely it will. Our system is not designed to work in such a capacity to which it has reached

This is not going to be enough because the alternative is nowhere near ready and the same powers who are in charge now will recreate a similarly exploitative imperfect system.

I think the new has to be morphed out of the defective old ways. That can be done by effectively challenging the legitimacy of the drive for "full employment" (i.e. wage slavery), and the power of the banking system to own the "money" it creates from nothing.
Reply to C Luke Mula

Hello Luke,
Thanks for taking interest in this thread.

We know what is fundamentally wrong with the current system that gives rise to a cloud of symptomatic problems.

Human society is subject to change like any other entity in evolution. Since the dawn of settled communities about ten thousand years ago, great "civilizations" were necessarily based on slavery of some form. This necessity was changed by the advent of the Industrial (and second agricultural) Revolution less than three hundred years ago. The problem is that 21st century social organization still has not responded to the material changes the industrial Revolution introduced into human development. A modern kind of slave system --- the employment system --- is still the (diseased) backbone of our society.

The evolutionary change will happen when the employee class --- the large majority of us --- decides to insist on its share of the "wages of the machine".
To paraphrase Marx, the liberation of the employee class (the self-employed are employed by their clients) has to be the work of that class itself.

There is no need for the "Asimov model". The conspiratorial model of secrecy is just an excuse for not doing the necessary that has to be done by ourselves.

The illegitimacy of the current system is easily demonstrated by the objective facts of economic reality. However, to make the charge of illegitimacy stick, a degree of economic literacy on the part the employee class is required. As the economist, Joan Robinson, said "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."

All the information is available. But without action (waiting for someone else to initiate the transformation) our global society will end up on the rocks.

Any comments on the model society presented by Albus?
Luke's post

Thanks for replying. I hope the format of the response is helpful.

...The powers in place right now have extraordinarily influential means of communication...

Maybe, and only maybe.
Consider again what I already said about the system's Achilles heel: "...The illegitimacy of the current system is easily demonstrated by the objective facts of economic reality...", meaning that the grass roots also could counter with "influential means of communication" given a form of competent legal thrust.

"...trend is towards greater specialization...

Again, there is a potential counter trend provided in the systems approach to problem solving.

"...the Venus Project has nothing to do with People's Capitalism. People's Capitalism describes another system of capital, while the Venus Project aims to do away with money altogether..."

Lets not make that judgment too early. PC describe VP type technological advances.
Elsewhere I pointed out that money as a tool can become superfluous at the tail end of of the VP, when Startrek type universal replicators become the means of production. It has been admitted that Fresco's designs can not begin to be realized if money is abolished here and now. So there will to be a intricate transition phase including the establishment of something like a "social dividend" and a "national funding agency" that will make the scarcity of money disappear.

"...the problems of "not having enough" are not solved by more money..."

Money has a very subservient role in PC. The main thesis is about how to unleash the full creative power of the modern scientific resources at our disposal towards producing everything we usefully need. At the moment those powers are held in chains for fear of the "universal unemployment" they would cause virtually overnight.

"...The problem never lies in the amount of money; it lies in how the money is spent. Giving people more money will never make them capitalists..."

This is a misunderstanding of what is proposed.
The question is, how to counter the fear and effect of "unemployment" caused by the wholesale introduction of VP type production technologies?
May I forestall a rather naive possible reply: "distribute to people the actual products as they roll out of the automated factories", and lo behold money is no longer needed.

This is a continuation of the VENUS PROJECT......

Hello Jonos, David, and Perter - In a collapse I do not think people will be jumping in the streets for global organization singing the wicked witch is dead (now nor never)... Like you Jonos, I've been in the trenches regarding this matter. I love the vision of the Venus Project but! The RBE is just NOT feasible and will require unit-of-measure to set value or you have this --- “this 2 ounce (sorry no measuring in the Venus kingdom) Limestone rock is worth your car because 'I' said so - now give it to me because 'I' don‘t need to work because 'I' have a basket of Limestone and 'I' can live off of it forever and ever.” Please, the problem is not money, the problem is in the growth calculation used for compound interest which is based upon the mathematical rule of 72. The VENUS Project may sale this to Utopianists dreamers but they cannot sale it to me.

Do they have potential - yes! Do I personally fall for their story - let’s see the math - I think they should anti-up of get out of the way of people who have real solutions to real world problems and are not afraid to conquer them without stirring up an emotion of hate. I’m curious - I wonder how many Narcissists the VENUS Project has gathered.

The problem with money is the same problem we have with energy - it is not sustainable.


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